Sashi at 23:28, 4 June 2020

2020-06-04T23:28:06Z

Sashi: Created page with "Linked at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop#Response to Tryptofish * 22:02 April 3, 2018, Tryptofish says: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldi..."

2020-06-04T23:26:15Z

Created page with "Linked at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop#Response to Tryptofish * 22:02 April 3, 2018, Tryptofish says: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldi..."

New page

Linked at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop#Response to Tryptofish]]

* 22:02 April 3, 2018, Tryptofish says: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=834092443&diff=prev "But I will certainly remember this"], regarding Colin's use of the word "guys". This appears to be the starting point for an extended rehashing of old grievances.
'''I AGF for the first time''' going forward, in spite of this indication of some issue that Tryptofish has with Colin.
* 17:13 April 4, during a discussion where I am trying to sort out all of the issues now in evidence on this page directly with James, Tryptofish says, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&diff=next&oldid=834237544 "If you choose to edit medical pages, you can, but you have to deal with it as it is."] (This is the first time I take to my room sobbing—but not the last with Tryptofish—because it is apparent that I will not be allowed to even try to sort these issues directly with James without interference. Despair sets in. It is near impossible to have a conversation with James without interference.)
* 17:30 April 4, 2018, Colin likens that to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&diff=next&oldid=834240790 women being told they must put up with abuse in the workplace,] which was exactly what I felt. Since I am always loathe to admit that (having spent my entire career in male-dominated industries), it was surprising to me that Colin picked that up, but I never said anything about it.
* 18:07 April 4, 2018, Tryptofish responds with, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&diff=next&oldid=834240966 duly noted], no recognition of how I had been treated.
'''I AGF for the second time''' as work proceeds on [[Dementia with Lewy bodies]] until the next issue crops up at [[Dementia with Lewy bodies]]. (Much good discussion interspersed among these diffs is left out, and the main source of problematic editing was not Tryptofish, rather another party not involved here.)
* 23:07 April 18, 2018 Tryptofish [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dementia_with_Lewy_bodie23:s&diff=prev&oldid=837134690 introduces problematic text] at DLB, with edit summary "easy fix" and
* 23:13 April 18, 2018 Tryptofish proclaims on talk, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=prev&oldid=837135285 "So much discussion over something that is so easy to fix!"] (I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837156056 later repaired] that edit to conform with sources.)
* 00:59 April 19, 2018 Tryptofish inquires if [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837147044 anyone has a problem with that edit]
* 13:12 April 18, 2018 I point out [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837162780 change in meaning] not according to sources
* 03:33 April 19, 2018 I point out [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837165057 other source-to-text issues] with Tryptofish’s "easy fix"
* 03:44 April 19, 2018 I point out that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837165913 inaccuracies are being introduced] by people rushing to edit without discussion, and ask people to go back to the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=prev&oldid=837167412 collaborative and deliberative pace] the article had enjoyed up to April 18. (Noting that the collaborative failure was not mainly coming from Tryptofish.) More discussion about the ''should'' meta issue continues, and at
* 08:12 April 19, 2018, Colin says [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837173069 "both change meaning and also make claims our sources don't. Guys it is really really important you don't do this. Most of the sources of this article are available to read, though of course Sandy has the benefit of access to multiple sources on each point, which makes it much easier to put words into our own language. …] and "Copyediting is surprisingly hard, and despite Tryptofish's claim that rewording these is easy, he hasn't managed it." And "I agree we should try to avoid explicitly instructional language. But it is hard, and harder than I think some editors here think." All of this is standard stuff for a collaborative effort involving many editors.
* 12:57 April 19, 2018 I mention that I had been at the hospital and the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837214922 changes over the last 24 hours had been hard to keep up with,] asking again for a return to collaboration. I said, "In spite of Tryptofish's statements that all of this discussion was over a simple matter that was easy to solve, deciding how to best handle the language about the fact that antipsychotics '''kill''' people with DLB is not a trivial matter, and why we have to get the language right."
* 17:38 April 19, 2018 Tryptofish [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837238014 seems fine] but at
* 17:55 April 19, 2018 Tryptofish appears [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837257177 unhappy with Colin’s comments.] But at
* 18:18 April 19, 2018 it seems that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837260167 all is well again].
* 19:34 April 19, 2018 The source of the real vehemence and lack of collaborative editing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837263787 backs off] and I think it will be smoother sailing now.
* 08:03 April 20, 2018 Colin posts what looks like to me to be a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837305675 very helpful summary and way forward]
* 21:15 April 20, 2018 Tryptofish brings up [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADementia_with_Lewy_bodies&type=revision&diff=837443766&oldid=837439160 "condescending"] in response to Colin. I keep trying to work, stay out of it, make To Do lists, archive done work, etc. Much productive works ensues, until I discover on April 22 that the article before I came to it had been written around an old, NIH source for the wrong condition, so I was going to need to re-check everything. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=prev&oldid=837650545]
* 15:43 April 25, 2018, Colin [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=837799420 responds to Tryptofish’s "condescending" remark] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=838205409 proposes more to fix the issues.]
* 00:03 April 26, 2018, Tryptofish says [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dementia_with_Lewy_bodies&diff=next&oldid=838244934 "I've had enough of this garbage. I am now taking this page off of my watchlist. Do not ping me or ask me to come back."]
'''I AGF for the third time,''' and stay out of whatever issue Tryptofish has with Colin, when
On July 12, 2018 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tryptofish&diff=next&oldid=849997518 after one post,] Tryptofish bans Colin from his talk page.
Fast forward to December 2019 ANI:
* 20:20 December 5, 2019 Trytofish says: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929441774 "I've had such unpleasant experiences with Colin that he is one of only three editors that I have banned from my user talk page. I also consider DocJames to be a wiki-friend."] (Note, no diff to the banning from a talk page after one post.) And positions the problem at Dementia with Lewy bodies in a way that did not resonate for me. The problems there were a) James using very old sources, b) another editor trying to impose personal views about one word on the article (unsupported by other medical editors), and c) Tryptofish taking offense at a post from Colin where none should have been taken.
* 22:36 December 6, 2019, After declaring "friendship" with James and bringing up old baggage with Colin, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929601696 Tryptofish and I discuss] "the idea that [Tryptofish isn't] a regular who regularly supports certain positions".
* 16:58 December 7, 2019 I specifically state that I will [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=next&oldid=929698901 consider Tryptofish partial and neutral going forward]. This is my third AGF, where I decline to present diffs about Tryptofish’s involvement to date.
* 19:03 December 7, 2019 it appears that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929715952 Tryptofish and I are in agreement], yet they are off to some other unfinished "defense"
* 19:35 December 7, 2019 Tryptofish [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929719754 declines to discuss directly with Colin] after I suggest that he attempt to resolve the dispute with Colin on talk, away from the heat at ANI.
Nonetheless, I will go on to my '''fourth AGF: '''
* Between 26 December 2019 and 2 January 2020, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#SG:_Response_to_Tryptofish_allegations we are not told that Tryptofish is working on a draft RFC].
:* Tryptofish "quietly" let [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tryptofish/Drug_prices_RfC_draft_2&oldid=932555084 Barkeep49 know on December 26] that they were working on a new draft.
:* They did not tell others about this undeveloped draft [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&diff=933772997&oldid=933770386 until January 2, when WAID's draft] was already well developed and we were under some time pressure.
:* On January 4, Tryptofish said [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&diff=934113151&oldid=934112549 he felt ignored and that others were trying to run out the clock.]
:* Barkeep49 asked [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tryptofish&diff=next&oldid=934119836 Tryptofish to strike the entire statement;] Trypto did [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&diff=934133471&oldid=934132921 strike part of it.]
* 15:18, January 5, 2020 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tryptofish&diff=next&oldid=934153809 where I reach out to Trypto after they feel "ignored"]
* 11:11 January 6, 2020 Colin starts [[User talk:Barkeep49/Archives/3#Lack of AGF]] thread.
* 19:57 January 6, 2020 Tryptofish makes [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tryptofish&diff=next&oldid=934391839 commentary to James about "insurance" for arbcom]
* 20:30 January 6, 2020 Tryptofish responds for the first time at Barkeep's page, with "it's easy to take selected passages out of context, frame them as something other than what they really are, without also presenting the context, including the provocations as well as the much larger amount of talk in which I have been trying to foster positive steps forward, all of which is a good reason why this is likely to end up at ArbCom." Tryptofish adds: "Colin is one of only three editors whom I have banned from my talk page", once again, rehashing old grievances, and not mentioning that this ban occurred after one post, no discussion, no attempt to engage to resolve differences. In fact, I can find no indication of Tryptofish '''ever''' having tried to resolve this difference, yet they continue to bring it up.
* 03:23 January 7, 2020 Barkeep responds [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Barkeep49&diff=prev&oldid=934545389 pointing this towards AE,] saying "I think the diffs Colin has put together are more than sufficient for a filling at [[WP:AE]]."
* 04:08 January 7, 2020 Within an hour, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tryptofish&diff=next&oldid=934547205 Tryptofish puts up a retirement notice]
and
* 23:20 March 27, 2020, Tryptofish says, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATryptofish&type=revision&diff=947701063&oldid=944740747 "I don't like the way that I was coming across, that it really did represent a decline in my frame of mind, and is all the more reason for me to continue to be away."]

So, now for my '''fifth AGF''', when Tryptofish accused me of "battleground" and "intimidation" at [[User talk:Barkeep49/Archives/4#Arbcom case]], I did not name Tryptofish as a party to the case, although his involvement is far deeper than many other named parties. The "consternation" is that this was not the first time Tryptofish's actions had me taken to my room, sobbing in frustration at how they shut down discussion and fail to AGF. {{pb}} What stands out in this entire chronology is that Tryptofish has many times declared their dislike of Colin, banned Colin from their talk page after one post, expressed on the other hand friendship with James, made it difficult for me to resolve issues directly with James on talk, yet chose to be involved as a key party in a dispute between Colin and James. This was unlikely to end well, and it has not; this problem rests with Tryptofish's continual rehashing of a personal grievance, which added an unnecessary dimension of consternation (particularly for me in my attempts to resolve things directly with James).

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	So, now for my '''fifth AGF''', when Tryptofish accused me of "battleground" and "intimidation" at [[User talk:Barkeep49/Archives/4#Arbcom case]], I did not name Tryptofish as a party to the case, although his involvement is far deeper than many other named parties. The "consternation" is that this was not the first time Tryptofish's actions had me taken to my room, sobbing in frustration at how they shut down discussion and fail to AGF. {{pb}} What stands out in this entire chronology is that Tryptofish has many times declared their dislike of Colin, banned Colin from their talk page after one post, expressed on the other hand friendship with James, made it difficult for me to resolve issues directly with James on talk, yet chose to be involved as a key party in a dispute between Colin and James. This was unlikely to end well, and it has not; this problem rests with Tryptofish's continual rehashing of a personal grievance, which added an unnecessary dimension of consternation (particularly for me in my attempts to resolve things directly with James).		So, now for my '''fifth AGF''', when Tryptofish accused me of "battleground" and "intimidation" at [[User talk:Barkeep49/Archives/4#Arbcom case]], I did not name Tryptofish as a party to the case, although his involvement is far deeper than many other named parties. The "consternation" is that this was not the first time Tryptofish's actions had me taken to my room, sobbing in frustration at how they shut down discussion and fail to AGF. {{pb}} What stands out in this entire chronology is that Tryptofish has many times declared their dislike of Colin, banned Colin from their talk page after one post, expressed on the other hand friendship with James, made it difficult for me to resolve issues directly with James on talk, yet chose to be involved as a key party in a dispute between Colin and James. This was unlikely to end well, and it has not; this problem rests with Tryptofish's continual rehashing of a personal grievance, which added an unnecessary dimension of consternation (particularly for me in my attempts to resolve things directly with James).

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En-WP:Trypto-SandyGeorgia - Revision history

Sashi at 23:28, 4 June 2020

Sashi: Created page with "Linked at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop#Response to Tryptofish * 22:02 April 3, 2018, Tryptofish says: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldi..."